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General Avengers talk

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Timeless A-Peel

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Post 12 Jan 2014, 14:20

Re: General Avengers talk

martyoreen wrote:
Mara wrote:I loved the tag stories in the sixties, especially the Peelers. Those scenes were about as classic as the ''Mrs. Peel, we're needed'' and indeed they were often humorous. I sometimes wish they'd done that in TNA as well, even though there are some episodes that leave you with the feeling everything's Ok: Emily and Target do. But then again, the characters in TNA were portrayed as human beings, not as the Bond kind of goodies. It would make the series rather bad if they'd ended to, for instance, end Obsession with Gambit and Steed enjoying themselves with a large Scotch.

'...Gambit and Steed enjoying a large Scotch'...would have been a great end ..they'd certainly have needed it :lol: Such a depressing episode... :shock:


Depressing, but very brave and hugely significant for the characters. It also highlights the differences between the original series and the new. The original series generally steered clear of episodes like this one, but TNA was capable of doing them, and giving them huge emotional heft.
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martyoreen

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Post 16 Jan 2014, 03:48

Re: General Avengers talk

Timeless A-Peel wrote:
martyoreen wrote:
Mara wrote:I loved the tag stories in the sixties, especially the Peelers. Those scenes were about as classic as the ''Mrs. Peel, we're needed'' and indeed they were often humorous. I sometimes wish they'd done that in TNA as well, even though there are some episodes that leave you with the feeling everything's Ok: Emily and Target do. But then again, the characters in TNA were portrayed as human beings, not as the Bond kind of goodies. It would make the series rather bad if they'd ended to, for instance, end Obsession with Gambit and Steed enjoying themselves with a large Scotch.

'...Gambit and Steed enjoying a large Scotch'...would have been a great end ..they'd certainly have needed it :lol: Such a depressing episode... :shock:


Depressing, but very brave and hugely significant for the characters. It also highlights the differences between the original series and the new. The original series generally steered clear of episodes like this one, but TNA was capable of doing them, and giving them huge emotional heft.

Significant certainly...not at all what you'd expect from Purdey ... sulking like a helpless teenager ... destroys (almost) the image that switches one on to Purdey...strong , no nonsense, capable, tough, ... sexy...not someone to wallow in emotional drivel :shock: No surprise the original steered clear... :thumb:
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Post 16 Jan 2014, 21:43

Re: General Avengers talk

martyoreen wrote:Significant certainly...not at all what you'd expect from Purdey ... sulking like a helpless teenager ... destroys (almost) the image that switches one on to Purdey...strong , no nonsense, capable, tough, ... sexy...not someone to wallow in emotional drivel :shock: No surprise the original steered clear... :thumb:


That was the point of the episode, though--to show Purdey's vulnerability, how she'd been hurt very badly and why she'd had to make herself tough and no-nonsense. I don't think we ever saw her "sulking", and she certainly wasn't "wallowing." She was in love with Larry, but he turned out not to be the man she thought he was--controlling and eventually abusive. And then he tried to kill someone! Having a person like that come back into your life would be extremely upsetting. She got out of the relationship, but she was hurt very badly--seeing Larry unlocks a lot of old wounds. Her reaction is honest and raw--having her be ho-hum about it would be extremely unrealistic, and would have told us nothing about her character. The episode shows us how she built herself up into "our" Purdey after Larry destroyed her. He nearly does it again.
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Post 17 Jan 2014, 02:41

Re: General Avengers talk

Timeless A-Peel wrote:
martyoreen wrote:Significant certainly...not at all what you'd expect from Purdey ... sulking like a helpless teenager ... destroys (almost) the image that switches one on to Purdey...strong , no nonsense, capable, tough, ... sexy...not someone to wallow in emotional drivel :shock: No surprise the original steered clear... :thumb:


That was the point of the episode, though--to show Purdey's vulnerability, how she'd been hurt very badly and why she'd had to make herself tough and no-nonsense. I don't think we ever saw her "sulking", and she certainly wasn't "wallowing." She was in love with Larry, but he turned out not to be the man she thought he was--controlling and eventually abusive. And then he tried to kill someone! Having a person like that come back into your life would be extremely upsetting. She got out of the relationship, but she was hurt very badly--seeing Larry unlocks a lot of old wounds. Her reaction is honest and raw--having her be ho-hum about it would be extremely unrealistic, and would have told us nothing about her character. The episode shows us how she built herself up into "our" Purdey after Larry destroyed her. He nearly does it again.

Thanks for reply ! As posted on Obsession (something I don't expect from Purdey) an episode more suitable for soaps, which in the main, are built around the vulnerability of characters ! '...Larry destroyed her. He nearly does it again.' depicts Purdey as being putty in his hands...incapable of judging character , fickle and not at all in control of her own destiny ! Wounds surfacing from the distant past... real soap opera emotional drivel ! Purdey , a soap opera character ,I should hope not !
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Post 17 Jan 2014, 19:14

Re: General Avengers talk

martyoreen wrote:Thanks for reply ! As posted on Obsession (something I don't expect from Purdey) an episode more suitable for soaps, which in the main, are built around the vulnerability of characters ! '...Larry destroyed her. He nearly does it again.' depicts Purdey as being putty in his hands...incapable of judging character , fickle and not at all in control of her own destiny ! Wounds surfacing from the distant past... real soap opera emotional drivel ! Purdey , a soap opera character ,I should hope not !


I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I didn't think it was soap operaish at all. I thought it explained a lot about her character, particularly her relationship with Gambit and why she is so reluctant to let him in. I see it as an exploration of her character and her background. The fact that Larry did so much damage explains why she's reluctant to let anyone get close enough to let it happen again. And she did take control. She walked away from Doomer back in 1970. She was strong enough to do that even though they were on the cusp of getting married.
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Post 20 Jan 2014, 00:32

Re: General Avengers talk

Timeless A-Peel wrote:
martyoreen wrote:Thanks for reply ! As posted on Obsession (something I don't expect from Purdey) an episode more suitable for soaps, which in the main, are built around the vulnerability of characters ! '...Larry destroyed her. He nearly does it again.' depicts Purdey as being putty in his hands...incapable of judging character , fickle and not at all in control of her own destiny ! Wounds surfacing from the distant past... real soap opera emotional drivel ! Purdey , a soap opera character ,I should hope not !


I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I didn't think it was soap operaish at all. I thought it explained a lot about her character, particularly her relationship with Gambit and why she is so reluctant to let him in. I see it as an exploration of her character and her background. The fact that Larry did so much damage explains why she's reluctant to let anyone get close enough to let it happen again. And she did take control. She walked away from Doomer back in 1970. She was strong enough to do that even though they were on the cusp of getting married.

'...agree to disagree ...' :yes: :thumb: A Purdey incapable of judging that Gambit is as different as chalk and cheese from Larry; that's stuck in an emotional time warp; has walked away only physically from Larry and is reluctant to enjoy life; is certainly not the Purdey I was switched onto, and feel the Obsession episode makes her very ordinary and wimpish ...I like to look on it as an aberration in the series !
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Post 20 Jan 2014, 15:25

Re: General Avengers talk

martyoreen wrote: '...agree to disagree ...' :yes: :thumb: A Purdey incapable of judging that Gambit is as different as chalk and cheese from Larry; that's stuck in an emotional time warp; has walked away only physically from Larry and is reluctant to enjoy life; is certainly not the Purdey I was switched onto, and feel the Obsession episode makes her very ordinary and wimpish ...I like to look on it as an aberration in the series !


I never said she couldn't tell the difference between Gambit and Larry. It's putting herself in another serious relationship, one that would make her vulnerable, that scares her, not Gambit himself. I think she knows very well that he's different from Larry. But when you've been hurt very badly, it makes it hard to open up again, even if you feel like the next time it could be better. Purdey's toughened up, but it's made it hard for her to trust people.

I don't see how she's "stuck in an emotional time warp," either, given that she left Larry 7 years ago, has had nothing to do with him, and never talks about him. I think the show makes it quite clear that she enjoys life, too, but not in the way she thought she would. She loves her job and her friends, but she's not got the house and the family she thought she would. She gave that life up and chose a new one. She's flourishing in it. What hasn't occurred to her is that she could have more. And she deals with Larry pretty well for the most part--she gives him the cold shoulder and slaps him when he tries to get intense. It's only when she's faced with the prospect of killing him that she breaks down, and really, who can blame her? Would you be able to shoot someone you were going to marry in cold blood? Would you be completely unaffected if they showed up one day? It'd be less realistic if Larry showed up and she was completely unaffected. TNA was unique because its characters weren't superheroes. They had flaws and felt more real. Purdey wouldn't be half as interesting if she had no emotional reactions or weaknesses.
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Post 22 Jan 2014, 02:06

Re: General Avengers talk

Timeless A-Peel wrote:
martyoreen wrote: '...agree to disagree ...' :yes: :thumb: A Purdey incapable of judging that Gambit is as different as chalk and cheese from Larry; that's stuck in an emotional time warp; has walked away only physically from Larry and is reluctant to enjoy life; is certainly not the Purdey I was switched onto, and feel the Obsession episode makes her very ordinary and wimpish ...I like to look on it as an aberration in the series !


I never said she couldn't tell the difference between Gambit and Larry. It's putting herself in another serious relationship, one that would make her vulnerable, that scares her, not Gambit himself. I think she knows very well that he's different from Larry. But when you've been hurt very badly, it makes it hard to open up again, even if you feel like the next time it could be better. Purdey's toughened up, but it's made it hard for her to trust people.

I don't see how she's "stuck in an emotional time warp," either, given that she left Larry 7 years ago, has had nothing to do with him, and never talks about him. I think the show makes it quite clear that she enjoys life, too, but not in the way she thought she would. She loves her job and her friends, but she's not got the house and the family she thought she would. She gave that life up and chose a new one. She's flourishing in it. What hasn't occurred to her is that she could have more. And she deals with Larry pretty well for the most part--she gives him the cold shoulder and slaps him when he tries to get intense. It's only when she's faced with the prospect of killing him that she breaks down, and really, who can blame her? Would you be able to shoot someone you were going to marry in cold blood? Would you be completely unaffected if they showed up one day? It'd be less realistic if Larry showed up and she was completely unaffected. TNA was unique because its characters weren't superheroes. They had flaws and felt more real. Purdey wouldn't be half as interesting if she had no emotional reactions or weaknesses.

I'm losing your drift... If it's not Gambit himself that scares Purdey, can't see why she'd be in any way reluctant of putting herself in a relationship with him if she was really interested in him...the guy in Hostage who teases Gambit about Purdey, seems to indicate that Purdey is a vibrant, sexually active woman, not at all shy of getting involved with any man she fancies :thumb: Purdey as serious and vulnerable,hardly the basis for any successful relationship ! If I 'were going to marry in cold blood' ....yes I'd be able to shoot that someone(in answer to your question) :wink:
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Post 22 Jan 2014, 14:34

Re: General Avengers talk

martyoreen wrote:I'm losing your drift... If it's not Gambit himself that scares Purdey, can't see why she'd be in any way reluctant of putting herself in a relationship with him if she was really interested in him...the guy in Hostage who teases Gambit about Purdey, seems to indicate that Purdey is a vibrant, sexually active woman, not at all shy of getting involved with any man she fancies :thumb: Purdey as serious and vulnerable,hardly the basis for any successful relationship ! If I 'were going to marry in cold blood' ....yes I'd be able to shoot that someone(in answer to your question) :wink:


Joanna was quite clear about the fact that Purdey had no boyfriends, i.e., she wasn't dating anyone, and she definitely wasn't sleeping with anyone. She'd go out on the odd dinner date, but then go home on her own. This slots quite neatly into the fact that Purdey was leery of getting romantically involved with anyone. Steed and Gambit get closer than most, but she tends to hold people at arm's length. Ergo, she's interested in Gambit, but scared of letting herself be vulnerable, NOT because she's scared of him. When someone's been hurt very badly, as Purdey has, the instinct is to avoid a repeat performance, even if the chances of it are low. This is coupled with the fact that Gambit isn't put off by her rejection, so she can keep him close without having to admit how she feels about him, which is rather unfair to poor Gambit. What Purdey needs is a jolt to take her past her reticence and realise how she feels before it's too late. She comes close in Faces, when she thinks Gambit's died, and very nearly blurts out how she feels about him.
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Post 25 Jan 2014, 15:56

Re: General Avengers talk

Is anyone considering getting the Avengers - The Lost Episodes audio adventures from Big Finish? Volume 1 is out now, with volumes 2 and 3 following in July and January 2015, respectively. I'm not sure if I'll get them yet to be honest, but in case anyone's considering it: The CDs are £25 at the moment and the downloads £20, which is normal for new releases, but the prices usually go up by about £10 a few weeks after the release. So it's worth getting them early :yes:
Link in case you want to check them out.
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Post 25 Jan 2014, 18:43

Re: General Avengers talk

Philippa wrote:Is anyone considering getting the Avengers - The Lost Episodes audio adventures from Big Finish? Volume 1 is out now, with volumes 2 and 3 following in July and January 2015, respectively. I'm not sure if I'll get them yet to be honest, but in case anyone's considering it: The CDs are £25 at the moment and the downloads £20, which is normal for new releases, but the prices usually go up by about £10 a few weeks after the release. So it's worth getting them early :yes:
Link in case you want to check them out.


I pre-ordered the first set months ago, and I just got it this week. I've only listened to the first episode so far, but I'm really glad I got them. I love the South African Avengers radio series, so I'm always keen on more Avengers radio episodes, and they've come up with a really great angle by doing the missing Keel stories. I'm getting more and more into the Keel era lately because we're starting to amass a certain amount of information about it, and we have a pretty good idea of what the plots were like with scripts, etc., so I'm more interested in that era than I've ever been. In a lot of ways, I think it would have been one of my favourite eras of the show if we had all the episodes. The Steed/Keel dynamic in some of the episodes is just off-the-scale, so I really look forward to them being "brought to life". Patrick and Ian's versions have been lost, so this is the next best thing. And I'm always looking for new angles on the show to discover and keep my interest fresh, so these are great for that as well. :yes:

Plotwise, they're miles away from the Emma/Tara era, of course. They're closest to the Gale episodes, so if you enjoy those (and the tenser dynamic between the leads), you'll probably like them. It's also probably closer to TNA in some ways, as well. Steed and Keel had a female co-lead in Carol Wilson, the original Avengers girl. She's not an equal partner the way Purdey was, but I really love her, and she can be pretty feisty. And you can also see the links between Dr. Keel and Gambit, Steed's only two major male partners. Keel doesn't like Steed as much as Gambit does, and Steed was Gambit's superior, but there are flashes that I can't help but think aren't entirely coincidental. ^^

Oh, and Hot Snow is gorgeously heartbreaking. I forget sometimes that Peggy's death got the ball rolling, but the way they play it is so understated, and the tension leading up to it is unbearable. Brilliant work.
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Post 26 Jan 2014, 02:12

Re: General Avengers talk

Oh wow that sounds really good, glad to hear that you're enjoying them :yes: I don't think I'll get them anytime soon, but it's definitely something to consider for the future. Big Finish is going to be the death of me someday. Their stuff is so good, but really quite pricey as well.
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Post 26 Jan 2014, 14:39

Re: General Avengers talk

Philippa wrote:Oh wow that sounds really good, glad to hear that you're enjoying them :yes: I don't think I'll get them anytime soon, but it's definitely something to consider for the future. Big Finish is going to be the death of me someday. Their stuff is so good, but really quite pricey as well.


They've made a real effort with them. They've taken great pains to leave them as intact as possible, too, so you hear them as close as they can be to the filmed versions. I don't mind paying for them, as I know it's a tough go for them to release them at all--we don't have the huge fanbase to support these things like, say, Doctor Who does, so it's more of a gamble. And they're taking even more risks by doing the Keels, rather than the Emma era. I've read so many comments along the lines of "There's only one Avengers: Steed and Peel," and it's really frustrating. Ditto all the people who keep saying that it can't possibly work without Patrick. The South African radio series proved that it can--Donald Monat was Steed every bit as much as Patrick was. So I encourage people to give it a try. More Avengers in all forms is always good. :yes:
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Post 27 Jan 2014, 00:52

Re: General Avengers talk

Big Finish is awesome (did I mention I love Big Finish?). Everything they do is so professional and well thought through, not to mention superbly executed. It might've been a bigger risk than the Doctor Who stuff that they do, but Big Finish fans are very loyal and they generally love every series that gets produced by them. And I have a feeling a lot of Classic Doctor Who fans are into The Avengers as well which helps I suppose. I'm glad you're enjoying them Timeless!

(And ugh, ignore those fans. I don't understand why fans can't appreciate every era of a show)
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Post 27 Jan 2014, 14:31

Re: General Avengers talk

Philippa wrote:Big Finish is awesome (did I mention I love Big Finish?). Everything they do is so professional and well thought through, not to mention superbly executed. It might've been a bigger risk than the Doctor Who stuff that they do, but Big Finish fans are very loyal and they generally love every series that gets produced by them. And I have a feeling a lot of Classic Doctor Who fans are into The Avengers as well which helps I suppose. I'm glad you're enjoying them Timeless!

(And ugh, ignore those fans. I don't understand why fans can't appreciate every era of a show)


I hope they do well, because I want them to produce all the Keels, if they can, and then maybe, just maybe, move onto creating new adventures, the way they've done for Who. This is my first exposure to Big Finish's products, other than one ep of Sapphire and Steel, as they had never done a show I loved enough to buy the audios, but they definitely do a good job. :yes: I hope the Classic Who fans do throw their support behind it, because I want these to be around for awhile! ^^

And I can't understand why people can't love all the eras either. The longer I'm a fan of the show, the more I just appreciate the thing as a whole. There are always going to be favourites, but there was something brilliant about every iteration of the series. :yes:
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Post 28 Jan 2014, 09:59

Re: General Avengers talk

Big Finish do great original drama as well as the old favourites like Doctor Who. They've got this series called The Confessions of Dorian Gray which is really spooky and gothic and generally just really good. And then there's my favourite, called Gallifrey, which is obviously a spin-off, but more of a political drama series set on (surprise surprise :lol:) Gallifrey.

Here's to hoping that The Avengers will be a succes and that they'll do some original ones at some point :yes:
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Timeless A-Peel

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Post 28 Jan 2014, 14:32

Re: General Avengers talk

I've seen the Dorian Grey ones advertised quite heavily in SFX--actually, I see a lot of Big Finish stuff both advertised and reviewed in SFX, including the new Avengers set, which got a positive review and a full-page ad. I think I've read about most of the Big Finish releases over the years, even though I haven't read any of them. :lol:

It's a great idea doing radio dramas, because it doesn't matter how much the actors age, their voices still sound roughly the same, so it saves recasting the way a TV show would have to. Obviously for the Avengers releases we've lost Ian, and Patrick's retired, but it makes recasting easier, too. So you never know what they could come up with if they do well. Someone suggested filling in Steed's adventures between the original and TNA, maybe with a new partner that we haven't see. Wouldn't that be fun?
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Post 29 Jan 2014, 00:09

Re: General Avengers talk

Ooh that sounds like fun actually! I always wondered what Steed was up to in between the Tara King era and TNA.
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Post 29 Jan 2014, 14:17

Re: General Avengers talk

Philippa wrote:Ooh that sounds like fun actually! I always wondered what Steed was up to in between the Tara King era and TNA.


I've always figured that Tara stuck around for at least a year or two after Bizarre, and that Gambit was on the scene by 1975, but that leaves three or four years unaccounted for where he could have easily worked with one or more other people. They could create new Avengers characters within the series' confines that way. :squee:
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Post 24 Feb 2014, 00:53

Re: General Avengers talk

Timeless A-Peel wrote:So you never know what they could come up with if they do well. Someone suggested filling in Steed's adventures between the original and TNA, maybe with a new partner that we haven't see. Wouldn't that be fun?


That sounds quite exciting :yes: I've never been really into the Tara King era (I just don't like Linda Thorson, sorry) but another companion sounds good!
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Post 24 Feb 2014, 14:48

Re: General Avengers talk

Mara wrote:
Timeless A-Peel wrote:So you never know what they could come up with if they do well. Someone suggested filling in Steed's adventures between the original and TNA, maybe with a new partner that we haven't see. Wouldn't that be fun?


That sounds quite exciting :yes: I've never been really into the Tara King era (I just don't like Linda Thorson, sorry) but another companion sounds good!


All pie in the sky, of course, but it would be a really fun project if they did do it. :yes:
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Post 11 Mar 2014, 23:01

Re: General Avengers talk

Amazing news today! :squee: Big Finish has signed with Canal+ to produce a complete set of all the Keel episodes. They had initially planned to do 12, but they've now extended it to cover the entire season, including dramatizing the episodes that already exist. They'll be releasing them until 2017 for a total of 7 boxsets.

http://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/the-ave ... season-one

This is absolutely huge for the show, as it hasn't had any sort of long-term revival the way other series have. I'm hoping that if these do well, they'll branch out into doing original stories, too. That in-between Tara/TNA era may be within reach after all!
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Post 16 Mar 2014, 00:16

Re: General Avengers talk

Ooh that's brilliant! How did I miss that news? (I'm on their website often enough :whistle: ) But that looks very promising, and here's to hoping that they'll branch out beyond the Keel episodes.

(On a sidenote, wouldn't it be amazing if Joanna one day signed up to do some work for Big Finish? She's got such an amazing voice, so I think it could work really well).
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Post 17 Mar 2014, 13:29

Re: General Avengers talk

Philippa wrote:Ooh that's brilliant! How did I miss that news? (I'm on their website often enough :whistle: ) But that looks very promising, and here's to hoping that they'll branch out beyond the Keel episodes.

(On a sidenote, wouldn't it be amazing if Joanna one day signed up to do some work for Big Finish? She's got such an amazing voice, so I think it could work really well).


Isn't it fantastic? :dance: I really do hope that they branch out beyond the Keel episodes when they're done, but even if they don't, this is amazing. I can't wait to hear some of these dramatized. Toy Trap in particular sounds like it'll be good.

I would love for Joanna to do more voice-acting. Can you imagine if they set some stuff in and around TNA, and got her in to play Purdey again? How fabulous would that be? :cheer:
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Post 17 Mar 2014, 21:54

Re: General Avengers talk

Joanna playing Purdey again for Big Finish is now going on my list of "things I didn't know I wanted, but now desperately need in my life". :lol:
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It is a miracle I can walk at all. I bless the wonder of life and the newness of living ~ Patsy Stone
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