Patsy is a sad character, a tragic character. She's basically been screwed over so many times she's become hostile and mean as a defense mechanism. I actually find a lot of AbFab difficult to watch because it's a tragedy in many ways. Poor Patsy's mother didn't want her, and her sister picked on her and stole the man she loved away on her wedding day, and she was never able to have a baby. Her career (modelling, etc.) didn't quite go the way she would have liked. In a lot of ways she has very low self-esteem, but when she's with Eddie, the pair of them can buck each other up and make out that it's the world, not them, that isn't "fabulous." Part of the reason she's so openly hostile to Saffy is because she felt like Saffy was stealing her friend away, and because Eddie is all she has, fear turns to anger.

I actually really liked the last Christmas special, because it was hopeful--there was hope that Saffy was going to have a better relationship with both Eddie and Patsy, and Saffy had finally found someone to be with. A sort of happy ending. But then White Box went and ruined it all on me, and that kind of killed the show for me. Dark for dark's sake isn't good.

Very nice analyse Timeless, it's good to have a proper discussion about the show for once: there's so much to talk about! I think you're absolutely right about Pats, after all, she has been through a lot, and has had a pretty horrible life. By the flash-black scenes however, we can tell that she's not always been like this. Remember the Joanna with the huge pigtails at Mrs M's kitchen table? The only people she seems rather kind to are Edina and her mother, probably because they've looked after her in her youth.

I'm convinced she does have a sensitve side: we just don't see it that often. Also, she wouldn't last a second on her own, as she has no home to go to, so in that way she's also very much dependent on Edina. If you follow that line, it's easy to understand she's hostile to Saffy, or everyone who might take her friend away. (like Jean-Pierre in serie 3, and Pete in series 5)

And yes, she is tragic and sad, and therefore almost always angry. Not only that, she seems to be dwelling on nostalgia, constantly referring to the 'old days', although those might not have been as good as she makes people believe. (''I hardly know her!'') It's amazing how much thinking Joanna and Jennifer have put into creating the characters, she's almost a completely different person.

Maartje wrote:Very nice analyse Timeless, it's good to have a proper discussion about the show for once: there's so much to talk about! I think you're absolutely right about Pats, after all, she has been through a lot, and has had a pretty horrible life. By the flash-black scenes however, we can tell that she's not always been like this. Remember the Joanna with the huge pigtails at Mrs M's kitchen table? The only people she seems rather kind to are Edina and her mother, probably because they've looked after her in her youth.

I'm convinced she does have a sensitve side: we just don't see it that often. Also, she wouldn't last a second on her own, as she has no home to go to, so in that way she's also very much dependent on Edina. If you follow that line, it's easy to understand she's hostile to Saffy, or everyone who might take her friend away. (like Jean-Pierre in serie 3, and Pete in series 5)

And yes, she is tragic and sad, and therefore almost always angry. Not only that, she seems to be dwelling on nostalgia, constantly referring to the 'old days', although those might not have been as good as she makes people believe. (''I hardly know her!'') It's amazing how much thinking Joanna and Jennifer have put into creating the characters, she's almost a completely different person.

Thanks! It's been awhile since I watch AbFab, but I remember what I thought when I watched, and Patsy could really make me weep a lot of the time. She does dwell on the past, but I, too, doubt she was quite the "swinging" chick that she made out. Patsy and Edie are eternal wannabes, never really fooling anyone but themselves, but again, using each other to fuel the fire. And anyone who would take her support system, i.e., Edie, away, is seen as a threat, which is why she actively sabotages Edie's relationships on more than one occasion. Really, I think she envies Edie. She may have wrecked both her marriages, but at least she managed to get married, and she had two kids. Both Edie's exes are still in her life, as is her mother, and even if she tends to treat them badly, the bottom line is she still has them. Patsy is odd woman out--no one to fall back on. And really, Edie in the flashback scenes isn't nearly as mouthy and mean as she is in present day. Edie is easily influenced, I think, and Patsy introduced her to the hard-drinking, hard-partying lifestyle (isn't there one episode where Patsy gets her smoking, and Edie actually protests?). If Edie had a mild-mannered friend, I think she would have turned out completely differently, maybe a soft-spoken housewife (yes, really!). After all, Edie does have her moments when she seems to want to be maternal, but seems unsure of how to do so. She was really socially awkward, I think, and Patsy showed her how not to be. Maybe that would have been good if Patsy hadn't also taught her to be irresponsible. After all, when she's waiting to give up Saffy, it's pretty clear it's Patsy, not Edie, who wants to do it (and since Saffy is still around, obviously Edie put her foot down for once).

Um, I've gone on longer than I intended, so I'll leave it there, but there's definitely some meat to dig into with the characters.

There's definitely more to the characters than meets the eye, and I think a lot of people don't look past their attitude. Eddie and Patsy constantly need each other for support, otherwise they fall apart because they're both too insecure to face the world on their own.
Like Jennifer once said, Eddie Patsy and Saffy are all part of one person. Eddie does the work bit, Patsy the sex bit and Saffy is the consience. It's definitely a multi-layered show, and it takes more than one viewing to look past the façade of the characters and see who they truly are.

My my we are being filosophical today

Philippa wrote:There's definitely more to the characters than meets the eye, and I think a lot of people don't look past their attitude. Eddie and Patsy constantly need each other for support, otherwise they fall apart because they're both too insecure to face the world on their own.
Like Jennifer once said, Eddie Patsy and Saffy are all part of one person. Eddie does the work bit, Patsy the sex bit and Saffy is the consience. It's definitely a multi-layered show, and it takes more than one viewing to look past the façade of the characters and see who they truly are.

My my we are being filosophical today

Or if you want to get Freudian about it (which Jennifer has basically done), Patsy is the id: all she wants is sex, drugs, and booze, and she'll go to any lengths to get them. Saffy is the superego: she's responsible. Too responsible. She's gone so far the other way, she's wound herself so tightly, she can't enjoy anything. That leaves Eddie for the ego, because she does work a little, but she also likes to indulge (Eddie's actually more to the id side, too, but not as bad as Patsy). There's your next school paper, Philippa.

If only I could write papers on AbFab characters, and perhaps some TNA thrown in. Then I would be a straight A student

Haha, nice theory Timeless! The both of you are absolutely right about the show: the characters are a brilliant piece of writing, and that's what makes them funny. Indeed most people tend to laugh about the behaviour (and that's of course, what the show is about) but there's so much more going on down the surface, it's really interesting to talk about.

Patsy is the most complex character of them all, and I can see both Jennifer and Joanna really influenced her. As Jo once put it: ''she has almsot become a sort of different person''. Jennifer used to call her when she was writing the scripts, asking her what Pats would say or do, but it's the dynamic interaction between the three characters mainly that makes the show sparkle. It's a hilarious show, but so very sad and tragic on the other hand, as it is mainly based on the really bad relationship between a mother and daughter...

Oh, I could go on for ages about AbFab! This topic actually inspired me to do another video, consisting of pictures of Joanna and Jennifer together. (I might post it later this evening)

I can't wait to see your video Maartje
I really want to make an AbFab video too, but I'm too lazy to get all the clips together, since it takes up so much time. Perhaps this summer holiday I'll dedicate a day to doing just that

I could go on about AbFab for hours on end as well, it's just such a great show, and there's so much more beneath the surface that can be discussed.
What's so beautiful to see is that the characters really have become separate people, they couldn't be more different from the actors who portray them, and that's what makes this show so special

Philippa wrote:I really want to make an AbFab video too, but I'm too lazy to get all the clips together, since it takes up so much time.

I know! The very few tributes I've made took me entire evenings, and I even had the the files already on my hard disc! This is a clip with just pictures: I'm planning doing a proper Joanna AbFab tribute, but I'd have to rip all my DVDs, and that's just a hell of work.

And you're absolutely right about the characters, although I think there is some Joanna in Patsy and Jennifer in Edina, although very well hidden. And then I don't mean just their background, but the actual characteristics, like Jennifer once explained there's always a bit of her own frustration in Eddie's rants.

I think that you can look at ab fab in so many different ways, you can simply look at the surface and laugh at the jokes and the characters commedically, but you can look deeper and deeper and deeper until you realize how the show could be very very depressing.. if i was eddy or patsy i think i would die, well if i was eddy without patsy and vice versa. I love how multilayered the show is, its one of those things you can just watch over and over..

i feel so bad for patsy, her childhood must have been disatourous with her mom, and that shows how much a parental influence is important...
her whole life is almost an act to cover up her sadness and she's mean to saffy as her mom was to her :/

sorry for responding to this so late LOL, i really need to get on more!

Philippa wrote:I could go on about AbFab for hours on end as well, it's just such a great show, and there's so much more beneath the surface that can be discussed.

Well, go for it! I love this series so much, and this section has been way too quite. Gotta catch up with the TNA board eh?

Patsy according to Saffy:

''A tight old bladder skin holding together some rotting old offal.''
''Cesspit from hell!''
'''Stinking bag of bones that haunts this house every day like a mouldering cadaver.''

Timeless A-Peel wrote:Patsy is a sad character, a tragic character. She's basically been screwed over so many times she's become hostile and mean as a defense mechanism. I actually find a lot of AbFab difficult to watch because it's a tragedy in many ways. Poor Patsy's mother didn't want her, and her sister picked on her and stole the man she loved away on her wedding day, and she was never able to have a baby. Her career (modelling, etc.) didn't quite go the way she would have liked. In a lot of ways she has very low self-esteem, but when she's with Eddie, the pair of them can buck each other up and make out that it's the world, not them, that isn't "fabulous." Part of the reason she's so openly hostile to Saffy is because she felt like Saffy was stealing her friend away, and because Eddie is all she has, fear turns to anger.

I actually really liked the last Christmas special, because it was hopeful--there was hope that Saffy was going to have a better relationship with both Eddie and Patsy, and Saffy had finally found someone to be with. A sort of happy ending. But then White Box went and ruined it all on me, and that kind of killed the show for me. Dark for dark's sake isn't good.

That is lovely. I thought that it sort of ruined it a bit too. I thought they were actually going to sort of get on. Maybe not. Lol.

bexyshortcake wrote:

Timeless A-Peel wrote:Patsy is a sad character, a tragic character. She's basically been screwed over so many times she's become hostile and mean as a defense mechanism. I actually find a lot of AbFab difficult to watch because it's a tragedy in many ways. Poor Patsy's mother didn't want her, and her sister picked on her and stole the man she loved away on her wedding day, and she was never able to have a baby. Her career (modelling, etc.) didn't quite go the way she would have liked. In a lot of ways she has very low self-esteem, but when she's with Eddie, the pair of them can buck each other up and make out that it's the world, not them, that isn't "fabulous." Part of the reason she's so openly hostile to Saffy is because she felt like Saffy was stealing her friend away, and because Eddie is all she has, fear turns to anger.

I actually really liked the last Christmas special, because it was hopeful--there was hope that Saffy was going to have a better relationship with both Eddie and Patsy, and Saffy had finally found someone to be with. A sort of happy ending. But then White Box went and ruined it all on me, and that kind of killed the show for me. Dark for dark's sake isn't good.

That is lovely. I thought that it sort of ruined it a bit too. I thought they were actually going to sort of get on. Maybe not. Lol.

It just wasn't a terribly good episode, either, so it felt like it was all undone rather pointlessly. Jennifer Saunders should have left it as it was.

I agree that the episode, or something alike, would've worked better before Cold Turkey. It is a bit of an anti-climax. But I still enjoy it for what it is.

Philippa wrote:I agree that the episode, or something alike, would've worked better before Cold Turkey. It is a bit of an anti-climax. But I still enjoy it for what it is.

That's exactly what it is--an anticlimax. It would have made a good dream episode, actually. They should have had Eddie wake up at the end.

Well that's been done already. Remember the isolation tank?

Philippa wrote:Well that's been done already. Remember the isolation tank?

True. Darn it. Maybe it's Patsy's dream, brought on by trying to eat something for the first time in 30 years.

Philippa wrote:Well that's been done already. Remember the isolation tank?

Oh, I watched Iso Tank the other day, haha. Kept focussing on Patsy snogging her old boyfriend, at some point, I thought Joanna was trying to eat the bloke's head... But anyway - yeah, Patsy. Love her.